Brave Newbies & E-UNI: Exactly the same and totally different + ramble

NB: Halfway through righting this I turned on a completely different direction that I had planned. Ideally I should split this ramble into two posts that actually make sense, but this is my blog and I’m free to be as lazy as I wish. The latter part is something I feel very strongly about, and even though it may sound very condemning towards the groups I mention, I think they are fantastic and only write such things because I believe they have the potential to be so much more awesome than they already are.

Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past month, you’ll have heard of the creation of Brave Newbies Incorporated, a corp founded on reddit, exploding with new members without very low experience and SP looking for fun PvP and making their own story in EVE. Their enthusiasm and abandon in getting fights has also meant they have received a large number of alt from certain null-sec blocks with far too many blues who just want to goddamn shoot at things.

I approve very much. I love this approach to the game and is one of the things I enjoyed most about about the UNI and continue to enjoy in Waffles.

Before I left the UNI BNI were still stationed in Hek, where they essentially got blapped to pieces whenever they undocked. Shortly after I joined Waffles they moved to Rahadalon, two jumps from our staging system which essentially means whenever there itsn’t a scheduled fleet out we’re in there relieving them of their ships. A rather amusing side effect f this is that Waffles has the 7th most kills this month in all of EVE, not bad for a corp with no more that ~30 guys online at any one time (total member count including alt and what have you is ~150).

As an added bonus, by engaging in the art of “Market PvP”, a few of us have made quite a lot of monet restocking their home station with cheap crap at a “profitable” margin. Personally I’ve made a few hundred mill thus far, which may not sound like much but they fly fully T1 everything, so market traffic is going to be very limited ISK wise. Regardless, one of our guys was screwing them so badly they thought it was an inside job and kicked their logistics guy, which was bloody hilarious from where we were sitting.

Unfortunately, some of their members were not so happy with affairs as they were, and though to everyone’s enjoyment the CEO decided not to remove the “Brave” part from their names and coward out, the following mail was sent to their corp by one of their members and the sentiment gained a lot of support:

Frоm: Rеd Follower
Ѕent: 2013.03.04 00:10
To: Brave Newbies Inc.‚

may i make a suggestiоn?
sincе we have mоvеd to our new home we have been farmed by sniggwaffe and сamped into our staition. if we were to move one jump over into Mendori we would deprive this corp from a multitude of kills thus making them move on. most of thier members have a -10 standing and cannot venture into any system above .4. if we are to be one jump over we as a corp or a fleet can easily jump into low sec for our roams. this would be safer for newer pilots and would allow us to seed the market without risking our ships trying to get to the station through a gate camp.


Thankfully they stayed, and now that they have all simultaneously skilled into T1 cruisers, the fighting has become (for me at least) a lot more interesting. I’m currently running what is essentially a mini-Talos;

Though sadly my non-perfect cap skills make my life a bit more difficult. Flying either solo or with some friends in other nano cruisers is a great laugh, lots of things to shoot at with my spare ships only 2 jumps away, with the minor annoyance that their are no repair services in Rahadalon. To their credit, BNI have been improving very rapidly, now using probing solutions to great effect and well as knowing when to get off field (most of the time). Overall, I think BNI are a great initiative but their regular members suffer the same problems as the E-UNI ones, Fweddit are the only similar corp who I’ve seen that don’t do this, and is makes me sad. I’m going to try to explain this as carefully as I can because it could very easily morph into something I don’t mean to say.

Having a bond between corp-mates, facing the opposition in good spirits is one of the best parts of EVE, but there can be a unnecessary level of butthurt and over-exaggeration in the difference SP makes. The directors and older members of both E-UNI and BNI get this, as do many of the grunt, but in the core of both there are many who take a friendly in-game rivalry and expound upon it in their heads to ridiculous levels. Sure, losing a fight, especially when you get truly whelped can be a little disappointing, but in more cases than people realise whether it’s Shadow Cartel, Waffles, or anyone else, we’re just guys playing a video game. We’re not “evil”, we aren’t fielding stupid amounts of ECM or ganking your miners and running away whenever a PvP ship undocks, we want fun fights.

Lower SP and experience is something to take into account, not an excuse to be made for losing. Instead of giving those as reasons and nursing a grudge, look at the engagement, look at the ships you brought, look at the way they were fit and take what you can from them. This attitude should be applied whenever you PvP, the first turns you into a bittervet and the second turns you into a better player who enjoys playing the game. The best examples are probably the current day CFC and HBC, and how BoB was taken down. Lots of new guys, but organised well into a great fighting force.

“But Apoth, you’re in the small group of highly skilled players and you don’t understand what it’s like to be in new corp with people who don’t know what they’re doing. You have so much more SP that the odds are insurmountable.”

Well, no. My character has 7 months of PvP skill points (I have ~25mill SP which sounds like a lot until you find out I have Exhumers 5 and stuff of the like). I spent 7 months on the other side of this table and still managed to bring that attitude 99% of the time. I’m one of the guys who FCed those noob fleets to their deaths and totted up the totals after. Now that’s I’ve had the benefit of both experiences, there is so much I have learned. I can promise you that though SP can make a lot of difference when the numbers are otherwise even, just by having a bunch of people more or outshipping or having more logi or EWAR, the balance of power can be drastically changed. These things are called force multipliers for a reason.

I’ll use a recent fight with E-UNI as an example. It wasn’t one of their shining moments and was definitely not the norm when I was still a member.

You’ll probably be surprised (unless your already cynical and old) to learn that is was a friendly fight. We gave the UNI a good bit of notice before rocking up, and then an extra 30 minutes because we’re just that nice, and this is how we were rewarded 😦 We were originally told that they only had 11 people on so couldn’t really face us, so even though we would likely all die we said to outship us by a class to make their odds nicer. Let’s see what they eventually brought:

– twice our numbers (as to be expected)
– As many BC or above as we had ships
– 50% more logi
– general massive overkill

I know a lot of those pilots back from my UNI days and many of them have more SP than half these Waffles. More logi OR greater numbers OR ship class would have been fine, but refusing to fight until it’s 100% win is kinda sad.

Anyways, it was a glorious fight and an awesome opportunity to fight completely against the odds and great FC practice for me besides. I may sound like I’m pretty butthurt above (which would be some beautiful hypocrisy) I went onto UNI comms after and had a laugh with the guys from the fight. GFs were exchanged from both sides etc etc etc. The reason I’m harping on about this is because it’s stuff exactly like this that gives you a reputation in EVE. The UNI used to be known for ECM blobbing, though after the second half of 2012 the guys we fought regularly (Shadow Cartel, fweddit, etc) were on great terms with us and more people were happy to engage E-UNI fleets because they new the fight would more likely be fun, rather than being permajammed. Popular bloggers and other members of the community wee talking about the vast level of improvement they had seen in the types of fleets being taken out and the skill with which the UNI were fielding them.

The old perception of the UNI is of ECM blobbing, risk-averseness and general bureaucracy. Since I started in the UNI last September it has come leaps and bounds towards much better (and far more fun) PvP training, even at a director level the rules and methods have been changing (and there’s some cool stuff that I know about on the horizon for you UNIbros as well). So, specifically to the UNI, BNI and everyone else who has a lot of newer SP members, retain that enthusiasm, keep a good attitude as you make the Universe a better place for it, you enjoy the game far more and the new player life-blood which pulses through EVEs veins is strengthened for the benefit of all.

Apoth ♥

NB2: I think this is maybe my first very opinionated piece, so I may or may not get a lot of people being very angry at me or thinking I’m very stupid. Firstly, I am quite stupid and am wrong a lot, but regardless I’ll do my best not to become a mini-Poetic. You’re all awesome!


48 thoughts on “Brave Newbies & E-UNI: Exactly the same and totally different + ramble

  1. G. Renard

    The thing that people constantly miss about E-Uni, and you seem to be missing here about BNI, is subtle but important and harkens back to the whole concept of EVE: Actions have consequences.

    As you know, Uni approaches roams differently than it approaches warfleets. The two entities have entirely different purposes, and thus different compositions (or they used to). Generally speaking, if/when Uni wants to go get GFs, they ship up into kitchen sink fleets with little ewar and almost no logi (though that’s changing with the new meta).

    Warfleets, back in the day, were what gave Uni its reputation for blobby ECM. Those fleets weren’t about GFs. Those fleets were about making wartargets go the fuck away.

    The problem is that UNI has done a shit-ass job at controlling its own image, and so it’s warface is what the public sees and comments upon. Old War-SOP, restrictive as it was, helped player retention because it protected Uni from wardecs, gave besieged newbs a structured way to express their frustration, and it worked very well. The new WSOP, an attempt to win hearts and minds and duck criticism rather than protect new players from being ground out of the game by the constant frustration of losing everything they own over and over and over again, makes Uni into a huge target. The results are predictable.

    When another group of players is farming you (U-MAD to Uni, SNIGG to BNI), animosity follows. Nothing feels worse than the sense of collective helplessness, of being constantly exploited for someone else’s enjoyment. No one wants to be a butt monkey, least of all when they are one.

    SNIGG is not blameless here. For all the talk about “creating content” and about how EVE is built around “non-consensual PvP.” The argument is, essentially, “shut up and enjoy being a butt monkey, scrub.” SNIGG has, by your own description, treated BNI like shit for its own pleasure (at least at the institutional level). They have, as a consequence, developed resentment towards you, and you criticize them for it. My advice to you here is the same advice I give to the likes of Daniel Whittaker: your actions have consequences, deal with it.

    1. Apoth Post author

      Absolutely, I have no problems with the UNI treating wars as they do, it’s when that style of play extends to the roaming fleets that makes me sad. In terms of us treating BNI like crap, it may not be quite as bad as I have made it out to be, the point I seem to have failed to make is that the level of outrage is somewhat disproportionate if you see what I mean. Comparing us to what U-MAD do to the UNI is something of a stretch, the majority of us take relatively cheap stuff compared to what we could bring to force ourselves to fly well and give them some fun. They also chose to live in low sec 2 jumps from a known pirate corp, we did not go to any lengths to pursue them such as war deccing them. Regardless, I get your point.

      1. G. Renard

        That’s fair. And make no mistake, when FCFTW rolled into the system between y’all, the first thing we did was start trolling for easy fights. 😛 (they were terrified of our devastatingly blobby Sleipnir + Ares combo).

        It’s just frustrating to constantly see people telling newbies that it’s not okay to get frustrated or angry with people who troll you, cut off the only avenues of enjoying the game you’re presently aware of, and then further pile insult on by saying you’re playing the game wrong, somehow. (while, in the same breath, claiming that /their/ way is legitimate because all ways are. :P)

        I do not, personally, believe you to be a troll or jackass. I know you too well. PL, on the other hand, which SNIGG is a minor-league feeder team for, is very much built in that mould.

        And yeah, I also lament the way Uni runs its roams on average. Like I said, their directors have a LOT of work to do on the Uni’s image.

        1. Apoth Post author

          I could not agree more. I have no plans to actually graduate to PL, as long as my UNI alt can achieve what I want it to my plans for my main after Waffles are either FC or Tuskers.

  2. random unista

    “- general massive overkill”

    This has to be one of the most annoying aspects of being in e-uni. It seems more often than not when there is a cool opportunity for a fight people tend to be more interested in winning than getting a compelling, rewarding, and fun fight. This obsessive need to win tends to lead itself to 30-60 minutes of agony. It takes us that long to form a fleet with enough crap to guarantee the win. More often then not this leads to the fight never happening. People tend to be long gone bought time we are ready or see our big ass blob and rightfully so have no interest in fighting anymore.

    1. G.Renard

      There are two forces at play, here, that don’t really get talked about, and worse: get rolled into an assumed malevolent approach that unistas are presumed to choose.

      First, there is the general tendency of anyone to overestimate the strength of their opponent, while simultaneously. UNDERestimating their own strength. The newer you are, the poorer your estimates are. Unistas are especially bad at this math and believe that they NEED 3x or 4x numbers in order to even have a hope of a draw.

      Second, when you tell a group that a given event is possible, you get a ton of people xing up. Uni tries to be inclusive in all things and this results in log form up times and large blobs as well.

      Neither of these, it bears repeating, are conscious, willful choices.


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    licences in 2010. Rajeev Raut who has performed poker around the world since 1997 carried forward his
    passion for the sport by opening this poker site in Silicon Valley of India.
    In that regard, one of many video games being conducted within the membership premises is that of poker.

    The International Federation of Poker is formally a member of the International Mind
    Sports activities Association, putting Poker in the identical class of sports activities comparable to Chess or Xiangi (Chinese language Chess).

    Each crew can have a captain, two ‘pro players’ who might be chosen on the
    idea of their achievements in poker to date, two ‘stay qualifiers’ who might be
    chosen on the premise of dwell qualification video games which will be run in few
    cities in India, two ‘online qualifiers’ selected by online qualification games and two ‘wild card entries’.
    Poker bonus and promotions are one of the crucial attractive components which bring extra players to register on the website.

    Three of India’s states recognize poker as a sport of talent,
    but in most different states players can continue to play as a result of there aren’t any clear legal guidelines in regards to the sport.
    In October 2013, The Indian Poker Affiliation, in petitions filed earlier than the Karnataka High Court, complained that the police have been harassing poker
    players by filing cases in opposition to them and raiding poker
    golf equipment.

    Our video games have been developed for all degree of gamers from amateurs to the Professionals by dedicated sport specialists keeping in mind all aspects of poker.
    This case has further being made complicated because of the
    regulation making arrangement between the States and Centre as prescribed by
    Indian Structure. To start with, any on-line poker website of India that
    wishes to have interaction in legal business must adjust to Indian legal guidelines like Indian Penal Code,
    1860, Code of Felony Procedure, 1973, Indian Information Technology Act, 2000,
    the Public Playing Act, 1867, Overseas Exchange Management Act (FEMA) 1999, and many others.
    The highest Indian poker rooms let you play the poker games
    you love head-to-head towards actual individuals or in tournament
    format for actual money.

  28. メルライン 楽天




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